Kurt Jon Ulmer wrote: I think I'll start a topic called 'Inshore Sailing - Offshore Sailing - What differences?' and see what objective thoughts we can collect there. 

But here, let me suggest that there's no difference in validity, whichever you think is more fun, lazy, available to you, family-friendly, economical, challenging, comfortable, blogworthy or in any way worthwhile. 

Also, to Arne, you may well have sailed more miles in all (if that matters) than many of us lazy ocean-crossing people, and tweaked, studied, modified and handled your sails much more, certainly than me. In the blinkin' North Sea! And taken time to share what you've learned. Feel good about it.

Kurt

Thanks Kurt.

My number of sailed miles would probably not have impressed any one – I have never tried to sum them up. However if number of "take-offs and landings", number of groundings (not on mud; on 4billion years old granite!) and numbers of biscuits and cups of coffee under way counts, then I’m an old salt! And then there is all the fun in the rig tweaking process – and when overtaking Ketil in Edmond Dantes with a speed difference of 0.0001kts...

Oh, yes, I feel good about it...

Cheers, Arne

Annie Hill wrote: No, no Arne - you quite misunderstand me: I completely take on board the fact that many people are constrained by time, but I also think that just as there are people who will amble home on a fat, old, gaffer, with patched and stretched sails, so are there junkies who don't mind not going particularly well to windward. 

 

Stavanger, Monday

Well and fine Annie, let’s live and let live :-).

Still, somehow I interpret messages on these pages to saying that Johanna’s rig is an inshore rig, How is that?

The fact is rather that lazy old Arne is an inshore man and that Johanna as a whole is not equipped for offshore travelling (although several Alo 28s have crossed the Pond)

If I were to take Johanna across the Atlantic I would have to do a number of things to her on deck first:

Inside there would have to be changes too:

The rig itself would not need many alterations:

No, I would not reduce the size of her rig, neither in area nor in camber. The almost flat top panel is only 7sqm and that is a small enough "trysail" for that boat.

Luckily, there are plenty of nice sailing grounds in my neighbourhoods. I don’t have to "cross the river to fetch water"...

Cheers,

Arne

 

 

 

 

Annie Hill wrote: One of my wishes for the online JRA seems to be coming true: more people with miles and fewer in their armchairs are discussing the rig.  IMHO, windward ability has been to JR what capsizing is to multihulls, with far too much emphasis on this one aspect and far too little on all the advantages that also need to be taken into consideration. ...

Hope that doesn't sound like a rant.

It sounds like good common sense.

David Tyler wrote:

Arne Kverneland wrote:

This thread makes it look as if long distance cruising is what it is all about, but it isn’t like that in the real world (where people have a job). Remember, probably less than one out of 1000 sailboats over 25ft is used for trans-oceanic cruising.

Arne, I think that your statistic doesn't seem to apply to members of the JRA. Of the 211 members of this website, 6% say they cruise full time, 16% say they cruise further than 500 miles from home, 36% say they are interested in living aboard, 47% say they are interested in long range cruising. 35% sail close to home, 23% sail within 500 miles of home, 45% are interested in daysailing, 57% are interested in weekend cruising. 

    All those numbers indicate a wide spread of activity and interest, with the long distance sailors certainly not in a tiny minority.

    I would agree with you, though, that the Flat Earth - sorry, I meant to say: Flat Sail Society are being very vocal at the moment! But here's one long distance sailor who's happy to say that he doesn't belong to that society, and who thinks that good windward performance is to be desired whatever kind of sailing you do.

I am delighted to see the Hasler Mcleod sail restored to the current rig listing.  Thank you.  It is also great that there is such a fine mix of people and boats in the JRA - it seems to me that, despite our different approaches and rig preferences, there are more things that unite us than divide.  What matters most is that you choose a boat, rig and sailing life that gives YOU the most satisfation.  Cruising is more a state of mind than a destination.  I think Arne is very happy with his rig and it suits his cruising very well. I'd choose it too if I was sailing Arion in restricted waters.  David's rig also looks fascinating and I'd love to take a closer look at it,  but I couldn't afford it.  And I am waiting with great anticipation to hear reports of how Annie's new rig performs.  As for me, I want the simplest, lowest cost, lowest tech rig I can get.  The good thing about junk rig though, is that I can always upgrade later if I change my mind. I AM thinking of a putting joints in the lowest two battens, and not lacing the foot to the boom, (and having a stout boom!) which will give me a nice curve in the lower part of the sail, my genoa as Arne puts it.  I can use the luff hauling parrell to induce some curve in the upper three battens, as Hasler recommended.  I know from sailing my junk-rigged sistership that I will reef the first panel down at 15 knots and the second at 20, at which point I revert to a nice flat sail.  These experiments won't cost much, which is critical to me and if they complicate matters too much for my simplistic mind, I can always revert to straight battens.  I AM a bit of a flat-earthist, I admit, Joshua Slocum remains my hero. When he was caulking Spray with cotton, they told him it would crawl and he said, "Tell me how fast it will crawl, so that I can make sure to get back to port in time."  Arion might be a little slower to windward with a flat sail (though I doubt it will make any difference at sea) but I'll just carry a few more cans of baked beans to compensate.  Michael Richey, admitting that Jester was not close winded, added that he did not feel it adversely affected his cruising, though it might prolong it. I also remember watching Alan Martienssen sailing Zebedee, his flat-sailed Benford dory schooner, up the narrow channel into Cairns a couple of years ago.  He put in a lot of tacks before he got the anchor down but the fact remains, he was the only cruising boat I saw that season that sailed into that restricted anchorage.  Good luck to you all. 

Arne Kverneland wrote:

This thread makes it look as if long distance cruising is what it is all about, but it isn’t like that in the real world (where people have a job). Remember, probably less than one out of 1000 sailboats over 25ft is used for trans-oceanic cruising.

Arne, I think that your statistic doesn't seem to apply to members of the JRA. Of the 211 members of this website, 6% say they cruise full time, 16% say they cruise further than 500 miles from home, 36% say they are interested in living aboard, 47% say they are interested in long range cruising. 35% sail close to home, 23% sail within 500 miles of home, 45% are interested in daysailing, 57% are interested in weekend cruising.