Pioneer 23

  • 27 Feb 2012 20:49
    Reply # 837359 on 818287
    Oh, that's great! One of the reasons I suggested John is that he is a small boat man himself - walks the walk aas well as talking the talk, so he truly understands what people want from boats around the 20 to 25ft mark.  And they have oodles of personality, too.  To me he is designing they way Jay used to, 30 years ago, but no longer does.  I must look up the study plans for Sundowner.
    Last modified: 27 Feb 2012 20:50 | Anonymous member
  • 27 Feb 2012 14:50
    Reply # 836837 on 818287

    Just when I thought I had made my decision......... I opened my email to find a message from John Welsford.  Bingo.....John suggested I take his 21' Sundowner design and stretch it to 24' with Junk rig, built of ply with full standing headroom and bags of storage.  He was already drawing the same boat for others :) 

    Thank you Annie for the suggestion, John is on my 'wavelength' .

    Peter

    Last modified: 27 Feb 2012 14:57 | Anonymous member
  • 27 Feb 2012 04:42
    Reply # 836516 on 818287

    Thanks to all for the comments and input.  I agree with you Annie that if you like a design then go with it.  I like the pioneer.  Like me it's small, affordable and simple.  I am not planning to live aboard her........... well not at this stage.  The main thing is to get on the water and get back to Europe.  Perhaps then I will have a better appreciation of what I feel I am missing in terms of space, and/or facilities. 

    Peter

  • 26 Feb 2012 12:56
    Reply # 836070 on 835319
    Deleted user
    Annie Hill wrote:.. The 34ft dory seems to have been a winner, with junk rig (and flat sails!) and the 30ft version also seems a success; on the other hand, the 37"6", much more full in the bow sections, does not seem to have worked well. 
    Interesting to see how ours turns out. I used the exact offsets from the 31'8 baby Badger, only enlarged the station spacing 10%. Now at 34'10", the bow entry is even finer. I know NA's don't like departures from their design, but its our boat. I reckon it will be a slightly better hull..
  • 25 Feb 2012 10:25
    Reply # 835415 on 818287
    Deleted user
    I think when you see a design you fall in love with, that's the one you should build.  IMHO :-)

    Annie, I could'nt agree with you more. When I first decided to build a junk rigged boat I considered the 'Badger' design and even went to view a part built hull but then I saw 'Tystie', sailed on her and was smitten. Initially I wanted a 30' version as I felt 34' was a little to large for me to single hand. David TYler helped with some sketches to take the hull builder and David Thomas pointed out that she would need external ballast. The hull builders said it would be as cheap to build the 34' hull with internal ballast as it would the 30' with external ballast. Needless to say the decision was not difficult. I have absolutely no regrets with my choice although 10 years down the line I can't help wondering if i may not have been sailing sooner with the 'Badger' design. That said I am very near being ready to launch. Sad to know that 'Malliemac' will not now be able to sail against 'Tystie' with her soft wingsail but nevermind, the prospect sailing against her with a 2012 Tyler design single sail and my Tyler designed 2004 sail should be interesting. That of course assumes I am sailing before David makes his next next sail! 

    Last modified: 25 Feb 2012 10:26 | Deleted user
  • 25 Feb 2012 05:29
    Reply # 835319 on 818287
    I think Jay's own interests have moved considerably away from simple boats for simple cruising; I'm not entirely surprised you haven't had a lot of feedback from him.  He did design several junk rigged boats some years ago, but they were straight H/McL and I don't think he really has a great deal of understanding of the rig.  The 34ft dory seems to have been a winner, with junk rig (and flat sails!) and the 30ft version also seems a success; on the other hand, the 37"6", much more full in the bow sections, does not seem to have worked well.  Even the best of designers have boats that turned out to be much better than anticipated, or not a success at all.  I guess that's one of the reasons that boats have some magic about them.

    I think when you see a design you fall in love with, that's the one you should build.  IMHO :-)
  • 23 Feb 2012 15:32
    Reply # 833495 on 818287
    Deleted user
    Another boat to consider, a plywood 24' cruiser the guy built in 10 weeks.
    There's the Caique II @ 26' too.

    Last modified: 23 Feb 2012 15:33 | Deleted user
  • 23 Feb 2012 11:20
    Reply # 833342 on 818287

    Just a thought ... the Red Fox may be worth investigating.  David Thomas design, twin asymetric leeboards (like David Tyler's Tystie and Peter Manning's Malliemac, but pocket version) .  Smaller than you are thinking about but with a large internal volume for its length.  The production boats have been grp moulded but I understand that the prototype was built in marine ply, hence the chined hull with slab sides.  I have often thought that the design would make a high performance junk rigged cruiser.  As for size, Shane Acton went round in smaller, and the 20 foot Kingfishers have many ocean crossings to their credit. 

  • 23 Feb 2012 08:14
    Reply # 833117 on 818287
    Deleted user
    I always liked John Welsford's 21' Penguin. He doesn't have a junk rig drawn for it, but don't see why one can't be adapted.
  • 23 Feb 2012 01:48
    Reply # 832921 on 818287

    Annie, thank you for the link.  As you say 'Swaggie' is a little on the small side, but I have contacted John and explained my situation and plans.  I await his reply. 

    The cost of plans is a consideration, of course.  But I agree that it is a fraction of the overall cost.   I think the key is to find a designer who is on the same wavelength.  John sounds like he might be.  Jay has also been helpful but seems reluctant to move away from his suggestion, to me, to use the 'baby' badger design.   It's just a bit big for my simple needs.

    The Eventide is, as you say, outdated but then again...... if it ain't broke don't fix it, as the saying goes. 

    The search continues.  I am fortunate I have time on my side.... but not the bank :)

    Peter

     

       " ...there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in junk-rigged boats" 
                                                               - the Chinese Water Rat

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